8hp75 vs 850re. Primarily, the 850RE is an older model of transmission while the...

As far as I know the 8HP75 was only used in Wrangler/Gladiator'

5.7l v8 hemi bsg a8 8hp75 3.92 7100 1850 5248 3131 2116 3,900 4,100 17,000 11,350 3.6l v6 a8 850re 3.21 6900 1838 5062 2904 2158 3,900 4,100 11,900 6,460 3.6l v6 a8 850re 3.55 6900 1838 5062 2904 2158 3,900 4,100 12,900 7,460 3.0l v6 ecodiesel a8 8hp75 3.21 7200 1800 5391 3213 2177 3,900 4,100 13,900 7,840Then, watch how replacing the OE plate with the thicker, stiffer Sonnax plate significantly improves "A" clutch apply — critical for long-term reliability in any build. Two upgraded Sonnax plates are available: Part #35577-70 Fits ZF8HP55, ZF8HP70, ZF8HP75. Part #35577-45 Fits ZF8HP45, ZF8HP50, ZF8HP51 & Chrysler 845RE, 850RE.Here's a guide to types of investments, how they work and what role they can play in a portfolio. We look at stocks, bonds, mutual funds, ETFs and more. Calculators Helpful Guides ...Wireless MAC Address Filtering Domain Login Function Transmit Power ControlAS an owner of a 2020 Longhorn crew cab, Ram box 4x4 truck with the V-6 Pentastar and the 3.55 rear end ration and having towed ~7000 lbs gross on a tandem axle flatbed with low wind resistance with it from Eau Claire to Iron RIver and also having towed a single axle, V-nose 7'high by 12' long snowmobile trailer with an estimated gross load of …General Specifications. TP-Link's TL-WA850RE is designed to conveniently extend the coverage and improve the signal strength of an existing wireless network to eliminate 'dead zones'. The RE200 uses powerful Wireless AC technology to strengthen your router's Wi-Fi, boosting its signal into parts of your home it can't reach on its own.B&M Cast Aluminum Deep Transmission Pan Fits Select Ram 1500, 2500, 3500 Trucks [ZF 845RE, 850RE, 8HP70, 8HP75] Natural. $317.95. $286.16 SAVE $31.79. Estimated to ship direct from manufacturer on 06/19/24, pending manufacturer availability. Learn More. FREE Shipping Lowest Price Guarantee.Published: February 20, 2023. Recently, we at Certified Transmission had a chance to do some work with the Ford 10R80. We have easy access to test vehicles since our owner also owns a used car dealership. For our R&D testing we used a 2019 F-150 equipped with a 5.0L engine and the 10R80 transmission. I got to play around and do some scope ...Drive Line: All-Wheel Drive, Engine: 3.6L V6 24V VVT Engine, Transmission: 8-Spd Auto 850RE Trans (Make), Exterior Color: Destroyer Gray, Interior Color: Black, Stock Number ... Drive Line: 4x4, Engine: 6.4L V8 Engine, Transmission: 8-Spd Auto 8HP75 Trans (Buy-US), Exterior Color: Diamond Black Crystal Pearlcoat, Interior Color: Tupelo/Black ...5 seats. 285.0-hp, 3.6-liter, V6 Cylinder Engine (Gasoline Fuel) 21 combined MPG. 166.8" length, 73.6" height. Four Wheel Drive.850re transmission wikiNavrhni.si. transportation of dangerous goods Konfigurovat produkt on-line. 850re transmission wikiNavrhni.siOct 8, 2021 · In this video I am changing the transmission fluid on a 2018 Jeep Wrangler JL. 8 speed 850re transmission. Steps to check fluid level or refill:Jeep needs to...I purchased a 5.7L Hemi and a ZF 8HP75 8sp transmission. Both were pulled from an e-Torque 2022 RAM 1500 4×4 with 321 miles. I have installed the engine and transmission into a 2009 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. The mechatronic was reprogrammed using settings based on a 2018 Dodge Durango SRT (supercharged). My issue is with downshifts.Ram Year. 2018. Engine. 6.4 Hemi. Just bought a power wagon 2 weeks ago and the CEL is on. It's throwing codes P3402, 3426, 3442, 3450. The truck has 1100 miles on it and I'm currently on vacation. The truck drives fine and seems ok. I put new gas in it and some Lucas fuel cleaner in it.Best regards, Dusty 2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18" wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 051904 miles. Reactions: tidefan1967 and mikeru82. mikeru82 Legendary member. Joined Nov 18, 2019 Messages 5,629 Reaction score 5,293 Location The Palouse.For example, the Ram 1500 V-6 got the 850RE transmission, which was of course designed by ZF and built under license in the United States. The Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi initially received the ZF8HP70 transmission. But that was eventually bumped up to the more robust 8HP75. When used in conjunction with the eTorque mild hybrid system, the transmission ...Transmission Pan for ZF 8-Speed ( 8HP45 / 845RE / 8HP50 / 850RE / 8HP70 / 8HP75) - Heavy-Duty Cast Aluminum. Aluminium oil sump for the ZF8HP50/ZF8HP70 gearboxes. Aluminium gearbox sump for the ZF8 transmission found in various BMW models. This is the only aluminium sump available which also features an increased oil holding capacity and …Alto introduces chain driven oil pump for ZF 8HP applications. Alto has introduced a new chain driven oil pump for a variety of ZF eight-speed transmissions. The rotary vane chain driven oil pump covers the following models (model years 2010 and on): 8HP45, 8HP50, 8HP55, 8HP65, 8HP70, 8HP75, 8HP90, 8HP95. The Alto part number is 216350ND.Houston, TX. Posts. 79. 8HP75 power limits. Real world experience from y'all. Hi all, I wanted to ask if anyone has actually found the limit of a HP75 trans. My other question is, what do y'all recommend, HP95 swap or rebuild and strengthen the HP75? Whichever you recommend could you please explain your reasons.Engine: 3.6L V6 24V VVT UPG I w/ESS, Transmission: 8-Speed Automatic (850RE), Speed Sensitive Power Locks, Automatic Headlamps, Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel, Molded in Color Bumper w/Accent ...I believe the Wrangler gets a lighter duty version 8 speed auto, the 850RE. This is not the same ZF 8 speed that has been around for a few years behind the Hemi and such. I can't find any hard specs on the 850RE except gear ratios. 2000 Wrangler 4.0 5 speed 4.56 gears, 33" tires. SOLD 2017 Big Bear 2 Door.Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for OE 68384525AA Chain; MP1622C; 22.0" X 6.1" X 1.9" 8HP75,8HP50,AL6,850RE (18-20) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!Buy Pacific Performance Engineering PPE - Heavy-Duty Cast Aluminum Transmission Pan (Raw) 228053400 Compatible with Jeep/Dodge 2014-2020+ Grand Cherokee/Durango an 845RE/850RE or 8HP70/8HP75 Transmission: Pans & Drain Plugs - Amazon.com FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchasesJoe Cecconi's is WNY's largest Ram inventory dealership. Call (716)297-5800 today to schedule a test drive! *All leases are 10,000 miles/year on approved Tier 1 US Bank leases. Must have current conquest lease in household. Lessee responsible for wear, tear and vehicle maintenance. Security deposit waived.Deal ends 3/31.TRANSMISSION: TORQUEFLITE 8HP75 EIGHT-SPEED AUTOMATIC. Availability. Standard with 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6, 5.7-liter HEMI V-8 and 5.7-liter V-8 with eTorque. Description. Adaptive electronic control, automatic or ERS manual control. Five-clutch-pack design with only two open clutches in any gear.Sep 1, 2020 · Manually shift and hold 1st gear for 5 seconds, the shift and hold 2nd gear for 5 seconds. Shift the vehicle to Neutral and bring the engine speed to 2,000 rpm. Hold it there for 5 seconds. Allow the vehicle to idle and then shift to Park. Verify the fluid temperature is between 86°F and 122°F (30°C-50°C).The 8-speed transmission in the Ram 1500 is a ZF 8HP75. This transmission is designed for both gas and diesel engines. It features eight forward gears and one reverse gear. The 8HP75 is a closed loop control system that uses sensors to monitor engine speed, vehicle speed, and throttle position. This information is used to determine the best ...TRANSMISSION: 8HP75 AUTOMATIC, EIGHT-SPEED OVERDRIVE Availability Standard – 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V-6 Description Adaptive electronic control or Electronic Range Select (ERS) driver-interactive manual control and electronically modulated torque converter clutch Gear Ratios 1st 4.71 2nd 3.13 3rd 2.10 4th 1.67 5th 1.28 6th 1.00 7th 0,84 8th 0.67Transmission Pan for 8HP70 / 8HP75 - Heavy-Duty Cast Aluminum Factory plastic pans are discarded each time you do an 8HP70 transmission service. Upgrade to a permanent solution. PPE has engineered an exclusive cast aluminum pan with a replaceable filter, which means unlike the factory part there is no need to discard the …8HP70 8HP75 850RE Transmission Pan & Filter kit with Bolts ZF O.E. Fits '11-'22 Dodge Jeep Ram 8 Cylinder , D35010CK , 68225344aa,Product Description. 2014-2020 Dodge Ram 8HP70, 8HP75 Transmission Cooler Thermostat Bypass. The 2014 and newer Ram trucks have always been known to run hotter than then their early predecessors. There also have been numerous melted down transmissions due to the bypass valve sticking in the cold closed position.These transmissions are identified as the 845RE and 850RE in V6 gasoline engine models and the 8HP70 or 8HP75 TorqueFlite 8 in V8 Hemi and 3.0L EcoDiesel models. The Ram 1500 8-speed automatic transmission is shifted via an electronic rotary shift dial selector on the dash. These are the first 8-speed automatic transmissions offered in the Ram ...5 seats. 285.0-hp, 3.6-liter, V6 Cylinder Engine (Gasoline Fuel) 21 combined MPG. 166.8" length, 73.6" height. Four Wheel Drive.SKU: 68522534AA Other Names: Gasket Description: 8-Speed Automatic Transmission Pan Gasket. 850RE (DFT) 8HP75 (DFV) Notes: Engines: 2.0l i4 dohc di turbo engine w/ ess. 2.0l i4 dohc di turbo etorque engine. 2.2l n-s i4 turbo diesel w/ess. 3.0l v6 turbo diesel engine w/ess g3. 3.6l v6 24v vvt engine upg i w/ess. 3.6l v6 24v vvt etorque engine upg i. 6.4l v8 srt hemi mds engine.Bluetooth devices can connect with each other wirelessly through what's called a piconet -- a very small ad-hoc network. The distance that it's possible for the devices to transmit...The ZF 8HP75 transmission transfers power from the engine to the road through 4 planetary gearsets and 5 multi-plate clutch pack. To increase both operating and fuel efficiency, the ZF 8HP75 transmission is designed to only keep two of its five clutches (3 rotating and 2 brake) open at any given time. This significantly reduces spin losses, and ..._____Remember that the 1st gear is improved on both new transmissions, so responsiveness and feel would be improved of the line and getting tires moving, but the system load at 1:1 @ speed (65 or 70 depending on which version) that the charts focus on wouldn't really change, other than the stock 3.21 & 3.73 options have been replace with the single 3. ...Mckinney Price: $49,015. Drive Line: 4x4, Engine: 3.6L V6 24V VVT Engine Upg I w/ESS, Transmission: 8-Speed Automatic Transmission, Exterior Color: Hydro Blue Pearlcoat, Interior Color: Black, Stock Number: 24WR9143, VIN: 1C4PJXDG9RW289143. Explore the latest featured vehicles at McKinney Dodge Chrysler Jeep® RAM.Transmission Oil Cooler, and Lines for 2019 Ram 1500. M8x1.25x25.00. Sensor Bracket To Engine. Transmission Oil Cooler. Warren Built On Or After 02/01/2020. Saltillo Built On Or After 02/06/2020. Adjuster To Floor. Mounting Bolt to Floor. Front Tow Hook Bracket To Rail.The 850RE vs 8HP75 debate is a complex one because the two are very similar. In fact, they're both called TorqueFlite 8 under the Chrysler/Stellantis branding. The main difference is that the 8HP75 vs 850RE are tailored to either V6 or V8 engines. The 850RE is always produced by Chrysler, with the technology licensed by ZF, whereas the 8HP75 ...Clarify 8spd transmission selections. 845RE is the Chrysler built version of the ZF built 8HP45. "Known differences between the 8HP45 and 845RE include, according to oh2o, the 845RE's clutches (which have extra friction plates for improved performance) and, for some vehicles, a higher capacity oil pan. oh2o wrote that many internal parts do ...In this video I am changing the transmission fluid on a 2018 Jeep Wrangler JL. 8 speed 850re transmission. Steps to check fluid level or refill:Jeep needs to...The V6s (Rams and Jeeps) use the 8HP50 or 850RE depending on model, which are rated 500 lbs/ft of max torque. I would rather have the HP50 because it's a pure ZF design with ZF programming. ... 8HP70 was recently updated to 8HP75, just as the 8HP45 was updated to 8HP50. The 8HP70/75 are definitely stronger, also physically larger.SKU: 68522534AA Other Names: Gasket Description: 8-Speed Automatic Transmission Pan Gasket. 850RE (DFT) 8HP75 (DFV) Notes: Engines: 2.0l i4 dohc di turbo engine w/ ess. 2.0l i4 dohc di turbo etorque engine. 2.2l n-s i4 turbo diesel w/ess. 3.0l v6 turbo diesel engine w/ess g3. 3.6l v6 24v vvt engine upg i w/ess. 3.6l v6 24v vvt etorque engine upg i. 6.4l v8 srt hemi mds engine.ZF 8HP plastic transmission pan differences. Hello all. I am currently looking to buy a replacement pan with filter for my first transmission service. I have noticed all sorts of pans available on the internet that more or less all look the same for huge price spreads starting at $95 and up too $275. I noticed mopar has a USA made version that ...The 850RE has issues the ZF does not have. It also shifts nicer, faster and handles more torque. FCA bought rights from ZF to produce a version of their own 8HP75 which is called 850RE TorqueFlite 8. The REAL ZF 8HP75 is made in Germany not in South Carolina. So to add to your theory, you got a replica/fake 8HP75.Then, watch how replacing the OE plate with the thicker, stiffer Sonnax plate significantly improves "A" clutch apply — critical for long-term reliability in any build. Two upgraded Sonnax plates are available: Part #35577-70 Fits ZF8HP55, ZF8HP70, ZF8HP75. Part #35577-45 Fits ZF8HP45, ZF8HP50, ZF8HP51 & Chrysler 845RE, 850RE.The JL-generation Wrangler will offer a six-speed manual transmission for rear-wheel-drive applications and two eight-speed automatic options (850RE and 8HP75).Apr 10, 2020 · SecondTJ. 2833 posts · Joined 2015. #3 · Apr 10, 2020. 850RE is the FCA built 8-speed automatic for the gas engines (2.0 and 3.6) 8HP75 is the ZF built 8-speed automatic for the diesel engine (3.0) Current: 2017 JKUR. Gone: 1998 Sport, 1987 YJ, 2000 Sport, 1997 SE.The Insider Trading Activity of Landis Kevin M on Markets Insider. Indices Commodities Currencies StocksJun 24, 2020 · The iconic Jeep® Wrangler returns for the 2021 model year, gearing up with more powertrain choices than ever. Four available powertrains are available for 2021, which include a 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 with engine stop-start (ESS), 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 with mild-hybrid e-Torque technology, 2.0-liter turbocharged inline four-cylinder engine with ESS, and the fuel-efficient 3.0-liter EcoDiesel ...Here's an excerpt from the April 2016 ZF 8HP Service Information bulletin (50130 EN): "Depending on the driving style, ZF recommends a transmission oil change every 80,000 to 120,000 km or after eight years at the latest." Equates to ~50k miles to 75k miles. This statement is removed in the March 2022 version.The JL/JLU 3.6 Pentastar engines are not identical to the JK/JKU, particularly regarding ESS, E-Torque, and PCM setups. -Support cross-member for JK/JKU was never designed for the 8-speed. You may need to do some cutting/grinding/welding. -Transfer Case may not be a direct fit for the 8-speed, so you may need an adapter or just source another ...The 850RE ($18.99) came out on August 29, 2013 and the 855RE ($19.95) on Jan 6, 2016. From its shape and internal antennas you would think the 850RE is a newer model, but it´s not. The 855RE is a better choice. 0 0 #4. Options. Copy Link; Report Inappropriate Content ...Feb 21, 2023 · NEW: 8HP50/850RE Overhaul Kit. Feb 21, 2023. The latest addition to the most complete line of domestic and import transmission kits in the industry is the 8HP50/850RE Overhaul kit for Jeep, Dodge, Ram, Chrysler and BMW. Item number 0049489324 (without pistons) & 0049489329 (with pistons)With the TorqueFlite® 8 Eight-Speed Automatic Transmission. The 3.6L Pentastar® V6 engine with eTorque uses advanced technologies like wide-range variable valve timing and two-step variable valve lift to deliver a Best-in-Class Max Available Hybrid Payload of up to 2,300 pounds1. HORSEPOWER. 305. EPA-ESTIMATED CITY/HWY MPG. 20/25. LB-FT OF ...Passenger Weight = 300 lb. Options Weight is option content above 33 percent of sales volume. Trailer equipment weight = Class IV receiver hitch is 11.1 lb. (if not already included in options weight). Trailer Hitch is 10 lb. if TWR is less or equal to 5,000 lb. and 65 lb. if TWR is greater than 5,000 lb. Payload and Trailer Weight Rating are ...2019 Ram, Bighorn Crew Cab, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75 trans. I'm looking for an aftermarket transmission pan that is not integrated with the filter for the 8HP75. $165 clams for that mopar replacement is total BS. Obviously the trans fluid needs to be replaced around 40-50k as I'm planning on keeping the truck. No matter what the "service" interval ...The Jeep Gladiator tires sizes include but are not limited to LT255/75SR17, P245/75SR17 or LT285/70SR17 as specified in our data below, organized by trim, option package, and model year.. Some examples of Jeep Gladiator tire sizes include: 2022 Jeep Gladiator Texas Trail Trim with LT255/75SR17 tires; 2020 Jeep Gladiator Sport Trim with P245/75SR17 tiresThe ZF 8 Speed transmission can accommodate a maximum torque output from as low as 300 newton-metres up to 1000 newton-metres. The torque converter can even be swapped out for an electric motor - creating a hybrid option that will still carry significant power. It is compatible with virtually all rear-wheel-drive vehicles and can work with ...The V6s (Rams and Jeeps) use the 8HP50 or 850RE depending on model, which are rated 500 lbs/ft of max torque. I would rather have the HP50 because it's a pure ZF design with ZF programming. ... 8HP70 was recently updated to 8HP75, just as the 8HP45 was updated to 8HP50. The 8HP70/75 are definitely stronger, also physically larger.Engine. Hemi 5.7. Josh22855 said: I recently swapped my 8HP70 out for a 8HP90 on a 2016 Ram 1500 single cab, the HP90 trans was from a 2016 Hellcat (Thanks ebay!). The bottom 2 bolts on the transmission bracket I moved back 1 and 1/8th inch and the 4 vertical bolt holes will have to be drilled out in order to bolt to the end of the transmission.But the transmissions in Ram trucks are built under license at a Chrysler factory in Kokomo, Indiana. It is branded as the Torqueflite8. If you order the V6 Ram, you get the “850RE” transmission; if you order the 5.7-liter Hemi V8, you get the “8HP75.” 2023 Ram 1500 Limited shift knob | StellantisWith the vehicle cold, place your drain pan in position and remove the fill plug. 2. Allow the fluid to drain until it stops. If your pan has a built in drain plug (some do and some don't) then remove the drain plug and allow the remainder of the fluid to drain. 3.The build sheet shows -- '8-Spd Auto 8HP75-LCV Transmission'... so does the RAM build site at https://www.ramtrucks.com. No mention of the ZF transmission. Also, the ZF 8HP Transmission Service Info PDF file referenced above doesn't show the 8HP75-LCV trans that's in my truck. See attached image. 1.The 8HP70 is also a Filtran. The 8HP70 8 speed transmission pan part number is 68261170AA and has a retail price of $250.00. All these filtrans come with the bolts and the gasket. The 8HP70D 8 speed for the diesel engines (3.0L V6) has a part number of 68225344AA and has a retail price of $335.00.How To Step 3. Locate and loosen the transmission fluid fill plug. This is found on the passenger side, right rear of the transmission, and above the exhaust. Before draining the Ram 1500 transmission fluid, loosen and remove the fill plug in a counterclockwise direction using an 8mm hex bit socket and rachet.- Stellantis/FCA has announced that for the 2023 Model Year all Wranglers and Gladiators will now come standard with the third generation of the ZF 850RE 8 speed automatic transmission. The transmission, previously a $2,000 option on Wranglers and Gladiators, will be available on all engine choices across the legendary Jeep Brand lineup.This video will show you how to replace the transmission filter/pan kit and fluid on the fourth generation 2014-2020 Jeeps equipped with the 8 speed ZF autom...This, in turn, makes a difference to preserve ideal working temperatures and expands the life of the transmission.Reliable. The expanded liquid capacity and moved forward cooling given by the Hi-TEK Profound skillet plan result in …The Jeep Wrangler ground clearance is between 7.9 to 12.9 inches as specified in our data below, organized by trim, option package, and model year. The 2023 Jeep Wrangler with the High Tide trim has the highest ground clearance of 12.9 inches while the 2002 Jeep Wrangler with the X trim has the lowest ground clearance of 7.9 inches.From its shape and internal antennas you would think the 850RE is a newer model, but it´s not. The 855RE is a better choice. 0 0 #4. Options. Copy Link; Report Inappropriate Content; LindsiRah. LV3. 2016-11-10 23:56:05. Posts: 90. Helpful: 0. Solutions: 0. Stories: 0. Registered: 2016-11-05. TL WA850RE vs TL WA855RE which one is better ...3.6l v6 24v vvt w/bsg 8-spd auto 850re srw 3.55 6900 1960 4945 2823 2122 3700 4100 12900 12900 7580 3.0l v6 turbo diesel 8-spd auto 8hp75 srw 3.21 7000 1740 5265 3125 2140 3700 4100 13900 13900 8250 3.0l v6 turbo diesel 8-spd auto 8hp75 srw 3.92 7000 1740 5265 3125 2140 3700 4100 15600 15600 9950The Jeep Gladiator ground clearance is between 10.0 to 11.6 inches as specified in our data below, organized by trim, option package, and model year. The 2024 Jeep Gladiator with the Mojave X trim has the highest ground clearance of 11.6 inches while the 2024 Jeep Gladiator with the Willys trim has the lowest ground clearance of 10.0 inches.The dealer found it was between one quart and two quarts low on fluid, which the dealer corrected. No problems since. Best regards, Dusty 2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018.Large, colorful hibiscus blossoms create an eye-catching display during summer, attracting hummingbirds and butterflies and providing the look of a tropical paradise. Read on to fi...5.7l v8 hemi bsg a8 8hp75 3.92 7100 1850 5248 3131 2116 3,900 4,100 17,000 11,350 3.6l v6 a8 850re 3.21 6900 1838 5062 2904 2158 3,900 4,100 11,900 6,460 3.6l v6 a8 850re 3.55 6900 1838 5062 2904 2158 3,900 4,100 12,900 7,460 3.0l v6 ecodiesel a8 8hp75 3.21 7200 1800 5391 3213 2177 3,900 4,100 13,900 7,840. Drive Line: All-Wheel Drive, Engine: 3.6L V6 24V Dependable Functionality. The Hi-TEK Dee RAM Trucks are Built To Serve. Whatever your responsibility, you can depend on the tough, dependability of a RAM 1500, 2500, or 3500 to help you get the job done right. Our Dodge RAM Dealership offers completely customizable RAM work trucks as well, from dump trucks to snow plows. We also have a huge selection of the new 2024 RAM 1500 Pickup ... Last Updated 2024-01-29. The Jeep Gladiator horsepower ra I think if you're getting the hemi you'll get the 8hp75, I don't think the other is an option at all with the hemi (only for the v6). As mentioned this is due to having the … Jan 23, 2021. #21. Just putting this out there for more...

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